What was your salary Dallas for all your effort to misuse & misappropriate church tithes? He promised never to leave me, Amen to that Max! It would appear that Jesus last words to them were sort of a rebuke. Men can be easily fooled, seduced, persuaded that they are doing Gods work, blackmailed, etc. Great comment! There has been financial fraud committed by Harvest and its leaders. Harvest Bible Chapel Hillsong United James Dobson James MacDonald Jason Sobel Jenna Browder Jennie Lusko Joel Smallbone John Hessup Jonathan Roumie Joni Lamb Jordan Feliz Kari Jobe Katie Torwalt Kay Robertson Kirk Cameron KLOVE Leanna Crawford Levi Lusko Mandisa Marcus Lamb Matt Hagee Matt Maher Mavericm City Michael Jr Phil Robertson Phil Vischer For you, maybe, but not for most here. The other 30 Elders and 12 XLT members will, likewise, move on to other ministry opportunities. What is harvest in the Bible? That would have been ample to time to realize what they had got themselves into, to determine who MacDonald really was, and become aware of the hypocritical mission of HBC and its leaders. I struggle to pray, to read the Bible. Max: My understanding is that Driscoll also consulted with Gateway. (Dee). I guess I mean that a person, on his or her own, cant do it without God working it out in that person. Looking forward to the recording of a worship night on Thursday, March 2. Their churches were of human origin, they failed. What in the world is running through his mind that he wouldnt want the truth shouted from the rooftops to those whod been under Macs influence far and wide? Vincent: Man if you are looking for a physical church to be perfected and wholly sanctified, by mere men, you will be disalusioned. Oh no, we must look to whatever local shcmuck stands in our particular church pulpit and asserts that he speaks for God. Hang on. I assure you that I do not see it as a Catholic problem, nor do I believe that all involved in the institutional church through the centuries have done so with wrong intentions. You have not taken full responsibility for your actions. Sunday services, weekly small groups, other events all give meaning to peoples lonely lives, and the rest is mostly fluff. Law Prof: the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments. Scary to think that unfaithful leaders can so easily jump from one pond to another. Being close only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades. Christian celebrities would have no stage to perform on if they didnt have an audience willing to buy tickets. With 17+ degree options, we have something for everyone. That dog dont hunt. It is pure hearsay or flat gossip to engage in tearing down other church bodies in an effort to be judge and jury in the place of God. Every believer has a part! Honstly, could we get any further from demanding perfection from James MacDonald? Nothing to be ashamed of. My church is also a UMC church looking at that kind of ministry. At least we can see from this that publicizing facts online does provably result in change. Was it the mere correction of an error? * Gaga sees them as self-righteous. God bless, Law Prof. My heart goes out to you. Then I read actual instructions on the veneration of Elders as of Christ himself. He believes hes entitled, and hes gonna do what hes gonna do, and no bunch of pew-sitting rabble-rousers are gonna get in his way. Zero current power holders at Willow Creek Community Church have uttered a single word condemning the sexual crimes of founder and 42 year leader Bill Hybels. but also why it doesnt seem to happen in the institution. Ishy: Noevangelical: So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? Can you really fault someone for thinking that maybe they got their ideas on Pastors & elders wrong? Id never seen the movie and still havent, but it was some pretty shocking stuff for a guy who hadnt seen a horror movie since the 1980s. Besides, nobody goes there anymore its too crowded. Yogi Berra. well, there will be more when parts of a belief system dont stand up to reality, its totally bewildering, [theres a word for what im feeling.it escapes me. In January, Gateway held a Pastors School Seminar inside Driscolls church that was all about Church Governance. My point was to wonder whether part of the problem lies in the theological DNA of the Western-derived traditions. I suspect, from many comments of those involved, that there was an actual mafia-like aspect of JMacs control. What followed, over the course of the remaining time I/we were there at the school and at the church in Elgin, attests to exactly what has been revealed about HBC, almost to a tee, and led to my first-hand interactions with Rick Donald, Fred Adams, and a few select others. john, i truly suspect that the only difference between my friends & family i described above and the grace-filled believer you describe is window dressing: vocabulary used when speaking, a smiley face, a tone of voice, body language. As if someone who chooses to remain anonymous has no right to speak. Made a lot of money, enjoyed the fruits of fame that was a product of his professed following of Jesus. Surely some student got it on their phone. Because he met the qualifications for eldership? * Gaga sees them as self-righteous. I would be interested in hearing about churches your tried or are trying. He will be infecting thousands more with his toxicity, greed, vulgarity and cruelty. Also, your letter simply further bolsters credibility of the excellent work from the Elephants Debt and Julie Roys. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: So, so much we dont know. Dallas, please reconsider your position. We the elders fully support him in everything he does. Its amazing. Great! Backfired twice over. Even during confusion, never-ending drama, attacks and Credibility has been diminished. Thats a smoking crater of a response. To no avail, because his problem is not that he struggles with imperfection but that he is a fake, a phony, a self-seeking narcissist who manipulates and abuses others for self profit and aggrandizement. Dallas, As if you werent already a public figure in this scandel. Some of that was probably bad stuff that was always phony, that Im glad is gonebut Im sure some of it was good stuff that, far as I know, died years ago. Dallas Jenkins (born July 25, 1975) is an American film and television director, writer and film producer. I should have rechecked my facts before commenting. Harvest Bible Chapel is an evangelical Christian megachurch in Rolling Meadows, Illinois. not quarrelsome You should repent and make reparations where necessary. 1 Peter 4:14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. Why is any pastor allowed to act like this? The protracted dispute between Pastor James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel (HBC) recently concluded through arbitration.Now the Chicago-area megachurch is sharing details of the settlement and has apologized to its former pastor, who was fired in February 2019.. MacDonald also is speaking out for the first time about the contentious, high-profile split with the congregation he led for 30 . They been negotiating a retirement package before all the properties foreclose and theres no more cash! I do sometimes wonder if we read the same Bible. The bear was later seen using the gun to defend itself against local mice and rabbits., PASTOR has to Keep Up With The (Paige) Pattersons, you know. Ive stepped inside a church once in the last three years; we were out of town visiting friends, and they invited us, and my wife looked at me like Please, honey, just this one time, lets not make a scene. So I went along and it felt something like being in the car, trying to teach my teenager how to drivewhite knuckles. Every weekend were gathering to open the Bible together, growing in Gods ways through community and going out to bring God glory through His Son, Jesus Christ. It is somewhat inevitable, as their theology asserts that the lost are not so much lost as rejected and doomed by eternal decree from the get go. That being said, I would think there is great value in making this public: as a warning for potential future victims of James MacDonald. Anyway, this small bit of a sermon doesnt appear to provide much foundational backup for all the rest of the filler in the Bible that supports mega-churches of any denomination. PJ, with the loss of religious heritage a forgone conclusion, I suspect they will next be raping our children of their identities, if they havent already. As a Christian, how could they do otherwise? +++++++++++++++++++. Im told love covers over a multitude of sins. The Four Pillars of HBC: 1 - PROCLAIMING the authority of God's Word without apology. Kind of clueless about it, obviously, because you act like think youre making a trenchant point. PJ: Be wary of falling into the trappings you so boldly wish expose. Oh, I probably am too self-righteous or self-centered or something. Noevangelical: Both HBC & WC had a plurality of elders and a single pastor as the head of their church. Harvest CEO J Scott Milholland, was one of the men who was responsible for the $10M year secret Black Fund which was used to grossly enrich the top 20 execs at Harvest (including Dallas Jenkins). Bible Follower | The Bible contains a wealth of knowledge and wisdom that's waiting for us to unearth it. Wow. There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. It didnt reveal anything new. Consider the following Scriptures: For a bishop [EPISKOPOS] must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money. (Titus 1:7), Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops [EPISKOPOS] and deacons (Philippians 1:1). i understand the losses you describe, and experience them, too. William J. Stewart. He has disqualified himself from the office of pastor, he forfeited his right to that sacred office, he used and abused those he should have been accountable to, he betrayed the trust of his followers, he squandered their tithes and offerings. Evangelicalism began going after talent over the least among you and I truly believe it actually is a large part of the failing of all of these churches. So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? , Info on the photo is apparently wrong. They truly have no idea. I AM GOD AND YOU ARE GOD AND EVERYTHING THAT GROKS IS GOD TOGETHER! Abigail: Noevangelical, Based on my 70-year snapshot of the institutional church, theres a vast difference in what Christ describes vs. what we have put together in this thing we call church. Rather, it appears that the early church looked much more Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican than low-church protestant. So be careful, dont shoot before you think. These charlatans cannot be allowed to get away with this. In reality, it lost about $29,000. It obviously took courage for you to write it. One can attempt to form a very egalitarian group where no one is in charge, but it only works until a dysfunctional person makes a power grab. Good words, Fisher. During this same time period, Harvest also employed Jenkins' son, Dallas Jenkins, as executive director of Vertical Church Films. Gateway is the church that planted Driscolls new The Trinity Church in Scottsdale and they are the ones transferring him cash each year since to keep it afloat and charging that to Global Missions expense. In our services, our ministries, our music-in everything we do at Harvest, our passion and focus are to bring God glory through His Son Jesus Christ. No judgment from me. The vast majority of those martyred died for the sake of rejecting false authority and false teaching. You have changed my perspective and I appreciate it. You were part of promoting that brand, right? These qualifications must be met if one is to be a pastor for the flock of God. This all happens when we gather, grow and go together as followers of Jesus. I hope that the HBC and WC churches become text book examples for future generations of Christians of what not to do. Harvest Bible Chapel Buffalo 135 subscribers Everything from The Chosen, Harvest Bible Chapel, 5am Writing, and more! So this ole guy is here until the Lord moves me along or my comments stop making sense (please tell me if they do). I dont see the point in saying that you are a Christ-follower if you dont get to know Him through reading His Word. Yikes! im proud to be human. It is likely that he deliberately sought the chips he could cash in on anyone who might be in a position to spill the beans. That said, the bishops, priests, and deacons are supposed to be models of humility and servanthood. Size, style, structure, statements, staff..have not guaranteed us safe and healthy churches. I havent read the comments, and Im just going to say that seeing a dead bear there with James McDonald behind it made me sick. Lowlandseer: Also, we must note who it is that the elders have authority over. CJ Mahaney spread $$$ which brought him years of support from the Calvinista leaders.. Thats it right there. , Amy Moore: new incognito Floridian Santa Claus look, No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:14). What do you make of Luke? Why would a person, individually, or a community put up with this behavior? Harvest Bible Chapel issued a statement today: Pastor James MacDonald came upon a sleeping bear while walking in the back yard of his modest home today. of seeing the beauty of the kindness of strangers, the beauty of love and faithfulness, of integrity at personal cost demonstrated by human beings everywhere. Churches that are run like cults do not encourage true friendships. ++++++++++++++++++. He added the promise of millions of dollars in renos and expansions, via the Closer Campaign, in order to sweeten the pot. Your apoplectic friend needs to go read the Bible, maybe one of those verses the mega preachers who demand your trust intentionally ignore or havent read themselves, like this one: Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. Psalms 146:3, Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25, Do not trust a neighbor; put no confidence in a friend. I too often look around at this world, and feel discouraged and useless to make any difference. Heres hoping quotes work the same here as many other onlline sites. He moved to Plano. Nice job. Finally, you deactivated your Twitter account a week ago. . Consider the following Scriptures: Now the apostles and elders [PRESBUTEROS] came together to consider this matter. (Acts 15:6), Let the elders [PRESBUTEROS] who rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially those who labour in the word and doctrine. (1 Timothy 5:17), For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders [PRESBUTEROS] in every city as I commanded you (Titus 1:5), Is anyone among you sick? elastigirl: there was no way i could see that movie, even as a full-fledged crusty, jaded adult. Or maybe their model for doing church is wrong? In church context, it may even be worse than the secular business context because in addition to the objective institutional power wielded by the narcissist CEO, there is the presumption of divine authority which legitimates the misuse of power. I guess its all a matter of perspective. To new commenters In a statement written by church elders, the Chicago-area megachurch says they fired MacDonald for "engaging in conduct contrary and harmful to the best . God put you there, who are you to take yourself out? Church Discipline ++++++++++++++. If a cynic like me can be taken in, naive, trusting folks are easy prey. It is time people reclaimed their role as the new priesthood, with no need for interceders, and kicked the false, self-serving, spiritually abusive charlatans to the curb, whether they call themselves elders, pastors, priests or Grand Poobahs. http://churchbuildingministry.org/who-we-are/. The beat goes on until Jesus returns. All we get is CYA, after the fact, trying to make the best of whats already been leaked. not a novice Many a victim of domestic or spiritual abuse might have been better protected by understanding this reality. At that time, very little about Dallas Jenkins' problematic theology and other unbiblical issues with The Chosen were publicly known. Jenkins: Yeah, I did the original Christmas short solely as something for my church's Christmas Eve service [said church being Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago]. And you sound profoundly arrogant. Its not like a plurality of elders guarantees anything, or multiple pastors is anything special. Keep reading. It just doesnt seem to be relevant (at least to me) to anything that this blogs about. Too many are like big box stores that shutter all of (the little churches on) Main Street, and then close their own doors forever. Just Do. Noevangelical: So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? Held himself out as a model. Harvest took in over a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in the last 12 yrs and many of their properties were donated free and clear. Because MacDonald earned it. How to Resign from a Church You couldnt care if the pastor lives in a 4 million dollar mansion. : Both HBC & WC had a plurality of elders as of Christ himself understand the losses describe... Wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light looked much more Roman Catholic Eastern... 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